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  #91  
Old 04-11-2007, 11:11 PM
browneye browneye is offline
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Goldsmith may know about the music business but he knows absolutely fuck all about football supporters.
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  #92  
Old 04-11-2007, 11:18 PM
Liquid Drum Theater Liquid Drum Theater is offline
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Originally Posted by tim 747 sykes View Post

" the cock " isnt going to make himself look bad intentionally which is a bit worrying as thats exactly what he did... i know im biased but fucking hell...saxon lax ,pedestrian,stuck in there ways..etc surely if you are going to make a programme about bringing a band back from the gutter ,then make sure the band are in the gutter in the first place.... saxon are not big in the uk for one reason and one reason alone..... the media... pure and simple
its not the music, the band members, the cd packaging,the live performance .its the media
during the shambles of a program i had to endure plugs for radio stations,rock magazines,rock djs etc ..... where was the plug for the new album ? nowhere to be seen

+ 1111111111111111111111


'the cock' mentioned Iron Maiden and how they have stayed mainstream. Well, imho they haven't changed their sound/style at all. Why are they still mainstream?? Well its because they are on front covers of magazines, videos shown multiple times a day on MTV/Kerrang/Scuzz, etc...

Its all down to media, and thats the truth. 'the cock' might have got saxons single on some radio stations and small articles in mags, but it wasn't good enough. Why wasn't anything advertised in MAINSTREAM mags and radio???

Why wasn't there big articles in Kerrang or metal hammer?? Why wasn't the single played on Kerrang or BBC radio??

The only reason it didn't work is because the media wasn't used to the full advantage.

Who cares anyway, Saxon are great as they are...

Also, the whole 'Saxon aren't selling in the UK' is BULLSHIT!!

I've seen Saxon 5 times at Wulfrun Hall, Wolverhampton since 1998 and its been fully packed every time (probably sold out), and that must hold at least 800 people, maybe more. If anything, Saxon are struggling more in US, because they don't play there at all lately.

Anyways, the programme was bollocks and I'm so glad Biff put 'the cock' in his place most times. Saxon did come out on top in the end (imo), but really the program was false from the start...
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  #93  
Old 04-11-2007, 11:35 PM
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Princess of the Night747 Princess of the Night747 is offline
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Originally Posted by browneye View Post
Goldsmith may know about the music business but he knows absolutely fuck all about football supporters.
Hahahahahahaha AINT THAT THE TRUTH. I know hee-haw about football but even I would have known never to have put Saxon on that pitch when they were two nil down. That was just sheer lunacy and I totally felt Saxon's pain for those full 3 minutes!!!!! NIGHTMARE!!!!!

That Nicky Horne on Planet Rock radio has just played And The Bands Played On - fookin awesome!!!!!!
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  #94  
Old 04-11-2007, 11:48 PM
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Princess of the Night747 Princess of the Night747 is offline
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Originally Posted by Liquid Drum Theater View Post
+'the cock' mentioned Iron Maiden and how they have stayed mainstream. Well, imho they haven't changed their sound/style at all.
Yeah you're right there, Maiden haven't changed thier style at all - THEY ARE STILL FOOKIN SHITE AFTER ALL THESE YEARS. Once Di'Anno left Maiden, that was the end of Maiden for me - they jsut absolutely bore the pants off me. And I dont know what I was thinking about when I bought a ticket to see them at Christmas there, bought the ticket before I realised they were gonny be playing the whole of AMOLAD - without word of a lie, that was the most boring and worst concert I've ever been too. I must have yawned about 20 times and I've never done that before. Utter dross it was and I said this over on the old forum but after about 3 or 4 songs, there were guys behind me shouting out for SAXON and I'm not joking.

I'm seeing Paul Di'Anno on the 1st of June so at least I'll get to hear my fav Maiden songs - Running Free, Wrathchild, Sanctuary, Phantom etc., at that concert!!!!
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  #95  
Old 04-12-2007, 03:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Princess of the Night747 View Post
That Nicky Horne on Planet Rock radio has just played And The Bands Played On - fookin awesome!!!!!!


Nicky was at the E4 followup recording but left before the end..........
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  #96  
Old 04-12-2007, 09:53 AM
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XRWoody XRWoody is offline
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Princess Of The Night; I was at Earls Court to see Maiden just before Christmas, doing all of AMOLAD was indeed challanging, not to mention the power cut. Not sure it was as bad as your comments make out though.
.
I saw Paul Dianno when he was with Maiden and they were superb. I saw Paul Dianno some years later and it was the single worst concert I have ever had the misfortune to see, by a mile. It was the first and only time I have ever walked out in disgust, utter and appauling crap.
.
I sure hope its better for you.
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  #97  
Old 04-12-2007, 10:13 AM
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A lot of good points have been made here regarding the Goldsmith programme but the most important thing to remember is there's no such thing as bad publicity. It's got all of us talking about it - OK we're all Saxon fans, but it must have raised the curiosity in others.

The most disppointing thing for me was the attitude of the editor of Classic Rock magazine, Sian Llewellyn, on the E4 show. Can't remember her exact words but basically she was saying that they wouldn't dream of putting Saxon on the front cover unless they produced a big selling album. What part of the word 'Classic' does Ms Llewellyn not understand? - the main objectives of her magazine are to provide a bit of nostalgia for those of us lucky (old) enough to have been there in '79 when the dam began to burst or an insight into what it was like for those unfortunate enough (too young) to have missed it (including Ms Llewellyn by the look of things).

I am a subscriber to the magazine and, generally, love it's content - there's stuff in there for all real fans of classic rock, although all articles won't appeal to all readers, that's the beauty of it - it covers the complete rock spectrum. Is she really trying to tell us that Wheels of Steel, Strong Arm & Denim & Leather (amongst others) were not classic albums? We're talking about a band here who were at the forefront of the NWOBHM - how much more 'classic' does she need?

Hendrix, Pink Floyd, Queen and Thin Lizzy have all appeared on the cover in recent times so maybe the acceptance criteria extends to having a dead founder member - seems a bit extreme!

The point made about the media contributing to Saxon's demise was spot on (although, to be fair, they did themselves a fair bit of damage with some weak albums during their more 'commercial' period, as Biff himself admitted the other night). If magazines like Classic Rock really wanted to, they could help the cause immensely (would the recent article have happened without the Goldsmith show, I think not). Without the media's help, all the band can do is keep playing monster shows and rely on us to fight the good fight, believe what is right and spread the word.

I'll be at the show in Glasgow - I'll be the overweight, balding 40 year old (does that narrow it down?) Hope to see the place filled to bursting point - the band certainly deserve it.

Off to WASP tonight too - another band that deserve better audiences than they are getting, but that's a gripe for another forum.

Never Surrender!!!
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  #98  
Old 04-12-2007, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by OldWiseBloke View Post
I'm still puzzled by some of the posts in this thread, particularly the hostility towards HG. Surely it's not just because he dared to be critical of any aspect of the band?

I cannot see why HG would be participating in this series unless he wanted all of the acts he is working with to succeed? The man has a big reputation and I am sure he would not want it to be tarnished by TV documentaries documenting failures?

People have complained that the only reason Saxon have fallen by the wayside in the UK is because of the press and their bad attitude - What did HG do? Got them huge exposure in the magazine most likely to reach their target audience - Classic Rock.
Hi OldWiseBloke! Now I have (at last) had time to watch the programme, I am afraid that I will have to disagree with some of your comments (and those of the other Scandinavian 101 ), but not in a dismissive way (I hope!).

First, can I say though that, having geared myself up for what I thought would be 90 minutes of cringeworthy TV, it actually was nowhere near as bad as I thought it would be. I thought Biff came across really well and was not made to look the lame duck that I'm sure was the object of C4's exercise, which is exactly what would have happened to a lesser person without his sense of humour/purpose. Really, it was a non-programme from the start: the premise stated at the beginning was that Saxon have hit 'rock bottom', something that is patently untrue. The narrator also asked something like 'Can they leave behind the spandex and bandanas?' Er, yes, I think they managed that a good 20 years or so ago ...

OWB, you say that you 'cannot see why HG would be participating in this series unless he wanted all of the acts he is working with to succeed', and maybe -- to give him a very big benefit of the doubt -- that was his intention, but I'm sure as hell it wasn't C4's. Let's face it, they are, in much of their programming, guilty of 'let's laugh at the monkeys in the cage' telly, if you know what I mean. Programmes about real people in the guise of self-help shows, reality shows, or whatever, that encourage viewers to take a superior position and laugh at those involved. OK, it might be their fault for not having the foresight to see that this is how they will be portrayed, but there you go -- people will always want to be on TV, for whatever reason. Saxon could so easily have fallen into the same trap, but didn't thanks to Biff's stance. Choosing a metal band/fans as a focus is sheer laziness on C4's part -- we're an easy target; we're used to being the butt of people's jokes, but most of us have been fans of the same bands for over a quarter of a century -- that's a loyalty that most musical genres couldn't even dream of. Laugh all you want media types!

Really, a programme like this is no better than something like X Factor -- the object is, pure and simple, to make a one-hour 'entertainment' show and no one much cares what happens after that. I may be wrong though: is Harvey still working with the band?

Maybe he thought that his nuggets of wisdom would serve them well for the rest of their career, but honestly for a great promoter/impresario, or whatever his job description is, I can't say I was particularly inspired by any of his ideas. I could've thought of them all in about five minutes and I know fcuk-all about promoting bands. Hardly innovative or 'modern'. One might even say 'pedestrian' ! Even then, I would never have entertained the air guitar idea -- I bet that one came straight from the C4 producers. For a programme that purported to be about updating the band's image, they would have had to work hard to think of anything more prehistoric and unfashionable than an air guitar record attempt. What a joke! It's not even amusing in a post-ironic way ... or something. What about new technology? MySpace, YouTube, getting the band's music featured on video games (as someone mentioned on another thread)? Surely something like that would've been more in tune with the way music is publicised these days ... but I get the feeling that those sorts of things aren't the speciality of Harvey. Or his tanktop.

In the E4 prog, HG did say that he didn't want to completely revamp Saxon's image, but to update it subtly. But surely that's what they've been doing themselves all along, which is why they find themselves high on the bill on the Euro festival circuit alongside bands like Sodom, Within Temptation, Blind Guardian etc., as Biff mentioned. These are the sorts of bands that 'young(er) people' across Europe are listening to (at least I think they are, but I am practically the same age as you OWB ). You say that HG 'got them huge exposure in the magazine most likely to reach their target audience - Classic Rock', but I disagree -- it should've been Metal Hammer that was aimed for (Kerrap is really a lost cause now). I subscribe to both mags, but to be honest CR bores the pants off me and even though I am ancient myself I much prefer MH as it covers a lot of the other bands I listen to (Korpiklaani, Primal Fear, Kiuas, Grand Magus, Turisas). Maybe these bands are more popular in 'Europe', but that is where Saxon also enjoy success -- these are the sorts of bands that they sit better next to, so I think MH would've been a better bet (they even feature Manowar in the latest issue, so I rest my case). Saxon are popular in the UK, filling venues like the Astoria (as other members have mentioned). If they changed their style/sound in order to be more popular in the UK, then I'm sure that would be a short-term gain only and might damage their profile in other countries (just look at that nasty new logo on the single). Harvey did not take this wider view, but that was only because he and C4 were, when all's said and done, making a TV programme to fill a 60-minute slot, in the guise of musical philanthropism.

Anyway, think I've gone on long enough ... although I'll probably think of something else I've forgotten! All in all, IMO, the two shows were far from the disaster I think they were set up to be: they gave Saxon exposure in the UK and if that encourages one new person to become a fan, or any people more long in the tooth, to return to the fold after years in the musical wilderness, then that can only be a good thing. (As others have said, look at how many new members have joined since the show and how much activity there has been on the forum.) All right, Saxon will never be as big as Iron Maiden and Def Leppard, but I don't want to listen to them. I switched off after Killers and On Through the Night!
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  #99  
Old 04-12-2007, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Princess of the Night747 View Post
Once Di'Anno left Maiden, that was the end of Maiden for me - they jsut absolutely bore the pants off me.
Hi Princess. I'm beginning to think we were separated at birth!! Couldn't have put it better myself. And I thought I was the only one who thought that ...

One of the first gigs I went to was Iron Maiden on the Killers tour at Cambridge Corn Exchange, when it was a proper old spit-n-sawdust venue before they ponced it up. (I was still at nursery school then of course ) I have seen again them since ... but really wish I hadn't.

I guess we're in the minority, but I prefer to think of us as the 'select few'!
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  #100  
Old 04-12-2007, 11:39 AM
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Have You Seen This.
http://www.classicrockmagazine.com/p...on_on#comments
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