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  #41  
Old 04-18-2007, 11:42 PM
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Originally Posted by midnightrider View Post
It was pretty full downstairs but there were a lot of empty ones in the balcony.It looked like there was a lot ot empty seats downstairs because Biff told everyone to come down the front,hence empty seats.
Take it they lost out on Wheels of Steel then "now the balcony, she's got...."
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  #42  
Old 04-19-2007, 12:10 AM
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Originally Posted by mozzymoz View Post
Ummm what are you disagreeing with? I didn't say Saxon play pubs now I was saying that in the context of the program seeing them in the pub and then seeing them in the big hall the big hall looked better that's all!
Yes of course the big hall looks better!! I'm just saying the Lincoln pub gig was a good idea in the end, was right to show it in the programme and a important factor in raising the bands profile to a younger TV audience. I'm sorry you have put your 'unhappy' icon up! I will tread more gently next time.
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  #43  
Old 04-19-2007, 12:14 AM
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I'm sorry you have put your 'unhappy' icon up!
Hahaha that sounds almost perverted Saxonized!!! (oops I've went off topic, bet you I'll be getting a slap for that)
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  #44  
Old 04-19-2007, 12:56 AM
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Originally Posted by mozzymoz View Post
Ahem I started this thread to talk sensibly about the show and i didn't want it to degenerate like the other thread into name calling and stupidty.

He is a ROCK promoter - heavy metal is rock too isn't it? He has promoted the worlds biggest rock bands over the years Samantha Muba he wouldn't normally touch so that is totally wrong!

Jeez look at the end of the day this program HAS raised Saxon's profile higher in the UK than it has been for about 10 years at least. Regardless of what you think of his clothing and other pointless jibes against him his involving Saxon in that series HAS done them good - even Biff said as much on the podcast! So for god sake let's get over these silly misquotes out of context that I have read in comments from the show, people slagging it off based on hearsay and the like. There are people who have things to say I know that went to the recordings but based on what we saw and what we now know the program has been very beneficial.

As I said in my original post there is a lot of things that people are dumping on HG for that SPV is or should be responsible for in terms of paying for to promote the band and it's albums over here - but if they aren't getting the sales to justify it in this territory they won't spend it - simple economics. Maybe now with the profile raised you might see a bit more ad spend etc but that is NOT HG's responsibility to promote their albums and the like but it IS the record label's.
AHEM ,Sorry i did not realise it was the "everyone must agree with mozz thread" cos if they don't they will be deemed to be taking part in name calling & stupidity.
Harvey goldsmith is a promoter, not a ROCK promoter, not a POP promoter, he is just A PROMOTER & i stick by the FACT that he has absolutely sod all experience in the PROMOTION of heavy metal (if he has then i cannot recall it, can you?). I did say "correct me if I'm wrong" & so far no-one has named any names.
& before you get on your high horse, I'm talking about the type of promotion that heightens the profile of unknown acts- & not putting up a few posters & adds in mags to say someone like aerosmith are playing at wembley (which would sell out immediately with any promoter).
He took wham to china for god sake & did live aid & live 8 along with promoting many many POP acts
So Samantha Mumba is much more up his alley than Saxon. i'm sorry mozz but IMHO you are wrong (if I'm allowed to disagree in this democracy).
I will state once more, HEAVEY METAL/ROCK is not GOLDSMITHS forte.
Please tell me two heavy metal bands that Goldsmith has made into superstars (or even just stars) with his promotional genius & personal input & i will gladly back down & eat humble pie.
This has nothing to do with anything except what is FACT & what is MYTH.
The job of a promoter & the job of a manager are completely different yet in both the episode's i have watched they have made the artists managers look stupid & inept deliberately so that Tank-top is made to look like the only man who knows what he is doing, & that is a FACT
How can you make the man who is responsible for WACKEN look like a fool who is about as much use as a mute at a singing contest.
Finally, from what i have seen on the various forums very few people have said it was a bad exercise for Saxon, in fact most have gone with the attitude (like myself) that all publicity is good publicity, the main point of annoyance has been the sly/crafty/slanted editing all for the glory of one MR HARVEY BLOODY GOLDSMITH.

THESE ARE MY RATIONAL & CONSIDERED THOUGHTS ABOUT THE CHANNEL FOUR SHOW
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  #45  
Old 04-19-2007, 10:09 AM
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[QUOTE=spike;2467Harvey goldsmith is a promoter, not a ROCK promoter, not a POP promoter, he is just A PROMOTER & i stick by the FACT that he has absolutely sod all experience in the PROMOTION of heavy metal (if he has then i cannot recall it, can you?). I did say "correct me if I'm wrong" & so far no-one has named any names.[/QUOTE]

Mate in the 80's and early 90's he did promote quite a few Rock/Heavy Metal acts, Goss mentioned somewhere in a thread (don't mention shredded tickets) that he had some old gig tickets that had promoted by Harvey Goldsmith on them.

Worryingly (cos I am also a ticket horder, hey its better than trainspotting) I have a ticket with Harvey Goldsmith presents emblazoned on it but ITS FOR SPINAL TAP @ the Royal Albert Hall 1992.

As for the rest of your thread, Moz is big enough to stick up for himself. But personally I don't think it helps anyone by having personal snipes at people on the forum . I haven't agreed with everything but hey we've had rational considered debate.

We are after all on this forum for one thing and thats SAXON. Lets play nicely.
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  #46  
Old 04-19-2007, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Militia guard View Post
Take it they lost out on Wheels of Steel then "now the balcony, she's got...."
Yeah the WILD BUNCH won !
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  #47  
Old 04-19-2007, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by spike View Post
AHEM ,Sorry i did not realise it was the "everyone must agree with mozz thread" cos if they don't they will be deemed to be taking part in name calling & stupidity.
Harvey goldsmith is a promoter, not a ROCK promoter, not a POP promoter, he is just A PROMOTER & i stick by the FACT that he has absolutely sod all experience in the PROMOTION of heavy metal (if he has then i cannot recall it, can you?). I did say "correct me if I'm wrong" & so far no-one has named any names.
& before you get on your high horse, I'm talking about the type of promotion that heightens the profile of unknown acts- & not putting up a few posters & adds in mags to say someone like aerosmith are playing at wembley (which would sell out immediately with any promoter).
He took wham to china for god sake & did live aid & live 8 along with promoting many many POP acts
So Samantha Mumba is much more up his alley than Saxon. i'm sorry mozz but IMHO you are wrong (if I'm allowed to disagree in this democracy).
I will state once more, HEAVEY METAL/ROCK is not GOLDSMITHS forte.
Please tell me two heavy metal bands that Goldsmith has made into superstars (or even just stars) with his promotional genius & personal input & i will gladly back down & eat humble pie.
This has nothing to do with anything except what is FACT & what is MYTH.
The job of a promoter & the job of a manager are completely different yet in both the episode's i have watched they have made the artists managers look stupid & inept deliberately so that Tank-top is made to look like the only man who knows what he is doing, & that is a FACT
How can you make the man who is responsible for WACKEN look like a fool who is about as much use as a mute at a singing contest.
Finally, from what i have seen on the various forums very few people have said it was a bad exercise for Saxon, in fact most have gone with the attitude (like myself) that all publicity is good publicity, the main point of annoyance has been the sly/crafty/slanted editing all for the glory of one MR HARVEY BLOODY GOLDSMITH.

THESE ARE MY RATIONAL & CONSIDERED THOUGHTS ABOUT THE CHANNEL FOUR SHOW
Well a few points here, no it isn't an everyone must agree with me thread but I would prefer it not to degenerate into sniping and name calling and shouting but hey this is the internet and who am I to try and keep people being adult and talking in an adult, civilised, and rational manner!

Setting aside your thoughts on the show which as you say you are entitled to your own opinion about which I am not disputing. I am looking at this with maybe a different perspective than you I don't know. I'll be very clear and precise here so I don't get misquoted again. So leave out anything to do with the show as I'm going to discuss what two job titles mean I guess. By definition a manager manages a band's day to day career (unless they have a personal manager) he would employ publicists who would get press for the band, liase with the record company over budgets etc for advertising and more for the promotion of the band, talk to booking agents and let them know when the band's diary was open for date booking or not, arrange with the record company for recording sessions etc.

Now when the booking agent knows the band has dates available and wants to tour he/she would then approach promoters (like Harvey Goldsmith or whoever) to see who would be interested in talking on the job of getting the gigs setup and all that goes with it on the promotional side for those shows. That doesn't include becoming the band's publicist or getting them press or anything to do with what is already in place in the job list above for the manager - it is really not his job.

Therefore promoting a new act is a completely different thing to what a concert promoter does. The concert promoter promotes concerts and does not get involved in all the stuff that the manager and record company does to break the new act. That might include approaching an established act's management with an upcoming tour and paying to get them onto the tour as support act to get the band exposure to their target audience for instance. I think maybe if you take out like I said above the thoughts/anger/whatever about the TV show and then look at what these job roles are about you might begin to see things a little differently.

Yes the show was edited that way I know but so what! The band - especially Biff as we saw - are big enough to take care of themselves and don't need to be coddled by us as they know well and good how to play the game. The band wanted something out of the show which they got, they now have a much higher profile in the UK than they have had since the late 80's. All through taking part in the stupid TV show. I've said this before and I'll say it again even if they only got 90 minutes of network TV out of it it would have been more TV than they have had in the UK in one go than they have probably had in all their career! But they also got so much more so in that respect and that respect only I think the show was great for them. I don't give a toss about anything else apart from that. Call him what you like about the show, or the editors or the producer of it - as they have a major effect also. But in his real career as a concert promoter anyone who can - as you said! - pull off events like Live Aid, & Live 8 which featured bands like Status Quo, Queen, Loudness, Black Sabbath, Judas Priest, The Who, Bon Jovi, Deep Purple, Def Leppard, Velvet Revolver to name a few of the rock/metal acts on the bill.

http://liveaid.free.fr/pages/liveaid...etaileduk.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Live_8_artists

Yes I realise (of course!) there were pop acts on the bill for these gigs too but they were charity concerts designed to either raise a lot of money (Live Aid) or get a political message across to as wide an audience as possible (Live 8) so narrowing the field of entertainment to only rock/metal would have worked against the idea of a "global jukebox" and made a sizeable portion of the potential viewing audience switch off - a fact that not everyone likes metal like lots of other forms of music it is a niche market/audience.

Anyway I dare say you'll not take any of this onboard so I'm probably largely blowing hot air here so I'll not waste anymore time on trying to discuss it.
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Last edited by mozzymoz; 04-19-2007 at 11:27 AM.
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  #48  
Old 04-19-2007, 12:48 PM
tim 747 sykes tim 747 sykes is offline
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everybody knows that if saxon annouced just one gig at the sheffield city hall on the inner sanctum tour then it would be full , the venue would draw from previously highly attended gigs from wolverhampton,nottingham, and london
i think that the lincoln gigs primary aim was not to introduce saxon to a new audience ( if that was the case leak out that it was dragonforce , trivium , my chemical romance etc) but it was to show the band playing to a hostile audience made up from students from lincoln university who had queued in the wind and rain to watch the cure ,
i was at manchester academy last tour and as plenty will testify it was well attended by students so the crowds reaction was not a surprise really ( only a surprise to sloppy researchers blinded by there ruse)
mr tank top ( and i will resort to name calling ) looked desidedly uneasy when he saw saxon doing well and people trying to shake his hand , it was a case of " wasted excersise "
how many of this " new audience " came 35 miles to sheffield
in my opinion mr tank top has devised this gutter tv programme as a vehicle to promote himself nothing more nothing less, from where i am sitting he promotes groups and artists that have profiles so high that its basically a ticket and booking service
from a neutrals point of view the programme probably was entertaining but as a saxon fan and as such i have a vested interest it was a slanted , factless , and insulting piece of the media ,
and to mr tank top , heres a piece of advice that my grandad gave me
ITS BETTER TO BE THOURGHT OF AS A FOOL
THAN TO OPEN YOUR MOUTH AND PROVE IT
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  #49  
Old 04-19-2007, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by mozzymoz View Post
Regardless of what you think of his clothing and other pointless jibes against him
Errr, he saw fit to talk about Saxon's "image", and tried to make it seem like they still dressed in their 80's spandex, etc, etc. He's hardly a fashion icon himself, and people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, in my opinion.
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  #50  
Old 04-19-2007, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by tim 747 sykes View Post
ITS BETTER TO BE THOURGHT OF AS A FOOL
THAN TO OPEN YOUR MOUTH AND PROVE IT

Quite, oh and it is thought

Ignoring everything I said and hammering on about the same stuff does not make for an intelligent conversation. Plus capitals on the internet mean your shouting and it does get a little bit wearing if you resort to that a lot. I'm sorry but my original post said a lot that you obviously don't want to acknowledge and as such that is entirely your perogrative but hey why come in here to try and cause an argument?
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Last edited by mozzymoz; 04-19-2007 at 02:09 PM.
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